WEBVTT NOTE duration:"00:23:49" NOTE recognizability:0.828 NOTE language:en-us NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.835 Hi there, I'm digital anchor. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:01.835 --> 00:00:04.015 Brandy Smith. The League of a draft NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:04.015 --> 00:00:05.460 majority opinion from the Supreme NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:07.100 Court that would overturn Roe. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:07.100 --> 00:00:09.580 V Wade is generating a lot of questions NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:11.911 about the leak about the opinion and NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:11.911 --> 00:00:14.701 about the impact it might have if the NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:14.701 --> 00:00:16.861 draft does reflect the court's final NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:16.861 --> 00:00:19.126 decision to answer some of those questions, NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:19.130 --> 00:00:20.906 at least the ones that can be answered. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:22.032 At this point. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:22.032 --> 00:00:23.528 We brought together constitutional NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:23.528 --> 00:00:25.469 law professors from here in Texas. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:25.470 --> 00:00:27.135 Josh Blackman, from the South NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:27.135 --> 00:00:29.370 Texas College of Law in Houston, NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:29.370 --> 00:00:31.449 Seth Chandler from the University of Houston. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:31.450 --> 00:00:33.879 Law Center Lucas Poe from the University NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:33.879 --> 00:00:36.304 of Texas Law School and Lynn Rambo NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:36.304 --> 00:00:38.600 from Texas and M's School of Law. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:41.320 I want to start off by getting your NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.320 reaction to this draft and Professor Rambo. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.088 I'll start with you. NOTE Confidence: 0.754893628571429 00:00:47.090 --> 00:00:47.660 Well, NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:47.710 --> 00:00:49.153 certainly the first NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:49.153 --> 00:00:51.558 reaction was one of shock. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:53.020 It's never been done before. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:53.020 --> 00:00:55.963 That's about all I could think that NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:55.963 --> 00:00:58.067 I was at least that I was aware NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:00:58.067 --> 00:01:00.349 of and I'm still unaware of any NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:00.349 --> 00:01:02.529 time an opinion has been leaked. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:02.530 --> 00:01:05.074 You know the second was a NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:05.074 --> 00:01:06.346 certain reaction to. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:06.350 --> 00:01:09.600 Uh, the content of it. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:12.596 I was not at all surprised about NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:12.596 --> 00:01:15.337 the content of it in terms of. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:17.530 It planning on overruling Roe. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:17.530 --> 00:01:19.048 It's hard to have been around, NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:19.050 --> 00:01:20.667 and particularly to hear the oral argument, NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:20.670 --> 00:01:24.289 and not expect that that was coming. NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:24.290 --> 00:01:26.154 So I guess those were my were my NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:26.154 --> 00:01:27.687 first reactions and then your thoughts NOTE Confidence: 0.92886936625 00:01:27.687 --> 00:01:29.400 turned to who would have done it. NOTE Confidence: 0.659631038 00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:31.130 Professor Chandler your first thoughts. NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:31.800 --> 00:01:33.896 Yeah, I too was shocked by the leak. NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:35.980 My initial reactions were thinking NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:38.480 about the implications of the decision NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:40.895 if it remained as drafted both on NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:40.895 --> 00:01:43.342 reality in the ground here in Texas NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:43.342 --> 00:01:45.320 and other states which will have NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:47.280 trigger laws that will start to make NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.276 abortion a felony within a month of NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:49.276 --> 00:01:51.257 the opinion coming down as well as NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:51.257 --> 00:01:53.182 the battles that are likely to be NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:53.182 --> 00:01:55.260 occurring in the future in Congress, NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:57.270 statehouses and state courts about NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:57.270 --> 00:01:59.717 the future of abortion law because NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:01:59.717 --> 00:02:02.258 although this opinion is a big deal. NOTE Confidence: 0.86961528625 00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:03.359 It's not the end of the story, NOTE Confidence: 0.639143655714286 00:02:03.710 --> 00:02:05.684 thank you from Mr Chandler Professor Poe. NOTE Confidence: 0.639143655714286 00:02:05.690 --> 00:02:07.420 What was your first reaction NOTE Confidence: 0.69249736 00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:10.566 like? The others absolute NOTE Confidence: 0.69249736 00:02:10.566 --> 00:02:13.500 shock and then after I was NOTE Confidence: 0.69249736 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:16.230 dealing with the shock it was. NOTE Confidence: 0.69249736 00:02:16.230 --> 00:02:19.115 How could somebody breach their NOTE Confidence: 0.69249736 00:02:19.115 --> 00:02:21.423 ethical duties so blatantly? NOTE Confidence: 0.6550714375 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:24.438 And Professor Blackman Europe? NOTE Confidence: 0.6550714375 00:02:24.440 --> 00:02:26.090 What what were your first thoughts NOTE Confidence: 0.6550714375 00:02:26.090 --> 00:02:28.097 when when you saw this news break NOTE Confidence: 0.6550714375 00:02:28.097 --> 00:02:30.740 last night? My biggest concern NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:30.970 --> 00:02:34.522 went to trust. The judges on this, NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:34.522 --> 00:02:35.714 from Courtney to trust NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:35.714 --> 00:02:37.269 each other to do their job. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:38.845 That one there's a draft NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:38.845 --> 00:02:39.790 opinion that's shared. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:39.790 --> 00:02:41.530 It stays in the court. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:41.530 --> 00:02:43.990 But now there's no trust. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:43.990 --> 00:02:45.401 Everyone is a suspect. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:45.401 --> 00:02:46.670 It's like moving clue, right? NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:46.670 --> 00:02:47.390 Was it Mr. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:47.390 --> 00:02:49.570 Plum in the library with the wrench right? NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:49.570 --> 00:02:50.506 Who did it? NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:50.506 --> 00:02:52.690 Every law clerk is now a suspect. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:52.690 --> 00:02:54.760 Every justice is now a suspect, NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:54.760 --> 00:02:56.830 and there's a cloud that will NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:56.830 --> 00:02:58.617 hover over the court for NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:02:58.617 --> 00:03:00.627 years to come after this leak. NOTE Confidence: 0.841071933333333 00:03:00.630 --> 00:03:02.559 It's absolutely devastating. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:05.497 Climate add something to all of that, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:05.500 --> 00:03:08.296 and I completely concur with everyone. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:08.300 --> 00:03:12.410 I think it's very important to. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:12.410 --> 00:03:15.668 To identify up front what we know and don't NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:15.668 --> 00:03:18.668 know about the outcome of the decision, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:18.670 --> 00:03:20.794 it is virtually impossible. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:20.794 --> 00:03:25.415 At this point, I guess there's a .00001 NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:25.415 --> 00:03:29.765 chance that Mississippi doesn't win this. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:29.770 --> 00:03:32.368 Case in one way or another, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:32.370 --> 00:03:34.315 because opinions don't get assigned NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:34.315 --> 00:03:36.636 until the end of conference when NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:36.636 --> 00:03:39.108 there's a vote and they get assigned to, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:39.110 --> 00:03:40.150 you, know, a justice, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:40.150 --> 00:03:41.450 who's in the majority opinion. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:41.450 --> 00:03:44.768 So the very existence of the draft NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:44.768 --> 00:03:47.650 suggests that the vote was taken. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:47.650 --> 00:03:48.654 That said, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:48.654 --> 00:03:51.666 the normal practice is to circulate NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:51.666 --> 00:03:55.058 opinions and see who's going to join it. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.394 And there is still a possibility NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:57.394 --> 00:03:59.360 that if you saw the. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:02.180 Argument you would appreciate that NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:02.180 --> 00:04:05.871 Chief Justice Roberts is not on board NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:05.871 --> 00:04:08.655 with Justice Alito's draft and will NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:08.655 --> 00:04:12.499 attempt to lure one of the other five. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:13.598 So we don't. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:13.598 --> 00:04:16.160 I think it's important to at least NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:16.246 --> 00:04:18.898 recognize and not give the leaker. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:18.900 --> 00:04:21.308 Transaction of believing that NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:21.308 --> 00:04:24.318 we know the outcome here. NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:26.228 That said, you know, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:26.228 --> 00:04:27.659 as I say, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:30.701 there's a 99.5% chance that NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:30.701 --> 00:04:33.036 Mississippi has at least one, NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.434 but the future of Roe remains NOTE Confidence: 0.764815541428572 00:04:35.434 --> 00:04:37.030 someone in the balance. NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:38.850 --> 00:04:40.480 And that leads perfectly into NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:42.110 this first question from viewer. NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:44.726 Ruben, who asks if the Supreme NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:44.726 --> 00:04:46.902 Court decided this in 1973 NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:46.902 --> 00:04:49.115 and reaffirmed it in 1992. NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:49.115 --> 00:04:52.025 How can changing justices change the NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:52.025 --> 00:04:54.550 interpretation of the Constitution? NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:54.550 --> 00:04:55.202 Professor Powell. NOTE Confidence: 0.892253389 00:04:55.202 --> 00:04:57.760 I I turn it over to you. Well, NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:04:57.770 --> 00:05:01.250 the Supreme Court, in its interpretations, NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:01.250 --> 00:05:04.390 has always said, well, NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:04.390 --> 00:05:07.330 a prime reason for overruling case is NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:07.330 --> 00:05:10.696 it was wrong the day it was decided, NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:10.700 --> 00:05:14.765 and that is precisely what NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:14.765 --> 00:05:17.683 justice Alito's opinion says. NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:17.683 --> 00:05:21.889 And starry decisis of adherence to NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:26.476 precedent has much less effect in NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:26.476 --> 00:05:28.744 constitutional decisions because. NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:32.030 The Constitution is basically unamendable, NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:32.030 --> 00:05:35.066 and therefore the only institution that NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:35.066 --> 00:05:38.351 can change a wrong interpretation of NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:38.351 --> 00:05:41.861 the Constitution is the Supreme Court NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:41.861 --> 00:05:45.694 and changes in composition of the court NOTE Confidence: 0.878511746666667 00:05:45.694 --> 00:05:49.100 have always preceded changes in results. NOTE Confidence: 0.89184163 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:52.180 Leads into the next question, NOTE Confidence: 0.89184163 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:54.796 which comes from Zane's Professor Blackman. NOTE Confidence: 0.89184163 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.664 He asks upon what basis can the court NOTE Confidence: 0.89184163 00:05:57.664 --> 00:05:59.259 justify restricting our freedoms? NOTE Confidence: 0.900264 00:06:00.710 --> 00:06:04.280 Careful, what is freedom? What is liberty, NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:05.680 right? The Constitution does NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:07.430 not define what freedom is. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:07.430 --> 00:06:08.818 The 14th amendment speaks NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:08.818 --> 00:06:10.553 of liberty in the abstract. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.738 In row, the court said that we're to liberty. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:14.128 Includes right to abortion NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:14.128 --> 00:06:15.863 and in this draft opinion, NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:17.875 the court says Liberty does NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:17.875 --> 00:06:19.479 not include this abortion. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:21.432 The effect of the decision is not to NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:21.432 --> 00:06:22.740 actually restrict liberty directly, NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:22.740 --> 00:06:24.316 but to give the power to the states, NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:26.230 decide what laws to enact. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:26.230 --> 00:06:27.603 So I think it's a mistake thing NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:27.603 --> 00:06:29.518 to court is restricting liberty. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:29.520 --> 00:06:30.828 What the court saying is now NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:30.828 --> 00:06:32.170 the states had the latitude. NOTE Confidence: 0.827578992222222 00:06:32.170 --> 00:06:33.890 Perhaps to restrict abortions? NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:36.548 I want to jump to Professor Rambo NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:36.548 --> 00:06:38.289 to answer this next question. NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:39.278 It comes from David. NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:39.278 --> 00:06:41.375 He says if SCOTUS is going to send NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:41.375 --> 00:06:43.335 everything back to the states to decide, NOTE Confidence: 0.884308575 00:06:43.340 --> 00:06:44.990 does that make the court obsolete, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:47.208 and I think the answer to NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:47.208 --> 00:06:48.400 that is absolutely not. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:48.400 --> 00:06:52.740 I mean, if nothing else. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:54.936 The Supreme Court decides an awful NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:54.936 --> 00:06:56.860 lot about the Constitution that NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:56.860 --> 00:06:58.860 does not involve individual rights. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:00.380 You have questions of NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:00.380 --> 00:07:01.520 federal government power. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:04.180 You also have rights that we hold NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:06.180 against the federal government, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:09.018 and while there are some indications NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:09.018 --> 00:07:11.989 that some of this opinion could NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:11.989 --> 00:07:15.426 be used in the context of other NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:15.426 --> 00:07:17.939 recognized constitutional rights, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:17.940 --> 00:07:20.453 I think we're a long way off NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:20.453 --> 00:07:22.810 from a wholesale abandonment of. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:22.810 --> 00:07:24.375 Rights by the Supreme Court NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:24.375 --> 00:07:25.627 of the United States. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:25.630 --> 00:07:27.770 So it's, you know, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:27.770 --> 00:07:29.375 it's definitely something NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:29.375 --> 00:07:32.228 to look for and look at. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:32.230 --> 00:07:34.726 And I do think that there are seeds, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:34.730 --> 00:07:35.460 justices, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:35.460 --> 00:07:36.920 plant seeds, NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.980 and opinions for taking the court NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:41.430 and the Constitution and the NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:41.430 --> 00:07:42.688 direction that they want it. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:42.690 --> 00:07:45.366 And some of those are there. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:45.370 --> 00:07:47.250 But we're a long way off from there. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:47.250 --> 00:07:50.328 Being able to do that successfully. NOTE Confidence: 0.913808604 00:07:50.330 --> 00:07:52.976 And rendering the Supreme Court obsolete. NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:07:53.030 --> 00:07:54.590 Something Professor Poe touched on, NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:07:54.590 --> 00:07:57.523 was that a change in the makeup NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:07:57.523 --> 00:08:00.675 of the court often proceeds a NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:00.675 --> 00:08:03.465 change in in opinions like this, NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:03.470 --> 00:08:05.120 but something that Molly touched on, NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:06.516 she asked a question. NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:06.516 --> 00:08:08.610 Were the recent vaccine and mask NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:08.684 --> 00:08:10.884 mandates the gateway to allowing NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:10.884 --> 00:08:13.084 government control over human life, NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:13.090 --> 00:08:14.966 so I guess she's asking if there's NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:14.966 --> 00:08:16.529 kind of another impetus here. NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:16.530 --> 00:08:16.984 Professor Chandler, NOTE Confidence: 0.632371324 00:08:16.984 --> 00:08:18.573 did you have any thoughts on that? NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:22.002 So that is the Supreme Court's NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:22.002 --> 00:08:23.350 decisions on masking mandates, NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:23.350 --> 00:08:25.195 and like is somewhat of a mixed bag and NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:25.195 --> 00:08:27.108 there are differences in the way it's NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:27.108 --> 00:08:28.589 treated restrictions from the federal NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:28.589 --> 00:08:30.497 government in ways it's stricted treated NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:30.497 --> 00:08:32.748 restrictions from the state government, NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:32.748 --> 00:08:37.900 but to the extent that the Supreme Court NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:37.900 --> 00:08:40.115 basically said that individuals had NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:40.115 --> 00:08:42.740 certain liberties to be masked free, NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:42.740 --> 00:08:44.910 clearly that doesn't seem to NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:44.910 --> 00:08:47.460 extend to rights of pregnancy and, NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:49.160 and I would say really, NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:50.030 although of course. NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:50.030 --> 00:08:51.190 Two issues are related. NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:51.190 --> 00:08:52.982 There are definite significant NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:52.982 --> 00:08:55.222 distinctions between mask mandates and NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:55.222 --> 00:08:57.343 whether someone has to carry a child NOTE Confidence: 0.879631315 00:08:57.343 --> 00:08:59.579 to term and under what circumstances. NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:00.842 Sticking with you. NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:00.842 --> 00:09:01.430 Professor Chandler, NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:01.430 --> 00:09:02.912 one of the other questions we NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:02.912 --> 00:09:04.769 saw come up over and over again, NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:04.770 --> 00:09:07.230 was about what happens now. NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:07.230 --> 00:09:08.217 And James asked, NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:08.217 --> 00:09:10.191 could Congress simply pass a law NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:10.191 --> 00:09:11.569 legalizing abortion and President NOTE Confidence: 0.4519466988 00:09:11.569 --> 00:09:13.214 Biden signed it into law? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:14.110 --> 00:09:16.030 I think that's the big question NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:16.030 --> 00:09:17.150 going forward, which is, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:17.150 --> 00:09:18.830 there's actually a bill on the floor. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:20.358 The Women's Health protection. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:20.358 --> 00:09:23.009 Act which purports to codify to make NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:23.009 --> 00:09:25.060 a statute out of Roe versus Wade, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:25.060 --> 00:09:26.754 and the question is going to be, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:28.626 does Congress in fact have the NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:28.626 --> 00:09:30.569 power to pass such a statute? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:30.570 --> 00:09:31.878 And where does that come from? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:34.400 And indeed, if you read the draft NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:34.400 --> 00:09:36.560 opinion on pages 10 through 11, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:38.678 there's this curious passage in it, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:38.680 --> 00:09:40.324 where Justice Alito seems to try NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:40.324 --> 00:09:42.336 to shut that down in advance by NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:42.336 --> 00:09:44.046 saying that there wouldn't be any NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:44.046 --> 00:09:45.820 sort of equal protection claim, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:47.446 which would lead for my constitutional NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:47.446 --> 00:09:49.185 law nerds out there to start NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:49.185 --> 00:09:50.690 wondering about the Commerce Clause. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:53.190 And whether the Commerce Clause NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:53.190 --> 00:09:56.389 gives Congress the power to permit NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:56.389 --> 00:09:59.429 abortions and prohibit state action, NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:09:59.430 --> 00:10:01.630 that's a a naughty question. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:01.630 --> 00:10:02.610 We also have a question. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:02.610 --> 00:10:04.650 What if if Congress goes the other way? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:04.650 --> 00:10:06.690 What if Congress starts to NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:06.690 --> 00:10:07.506 restrict abortions? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:07.510 --> 00:10:09.990 Does Congress have the power to do that? NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:09.990 --> 00:10:11.673 So I think there are going to be a NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:11.673 --> 00:10:13.447 we're not done with constitutional law. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:15.034 We're not done with the Supreme NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:15.034 --> 00:10:16.090 Court by any means. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:17.777 We're just going to be having a NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:17.777 --> 00:10:19.423 new chapter if this draft opinion NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:19.423 --> 00:10:20.863 in fact becomes the real. NOTE Confidence: 0.80718397125 00:10:20.870 --> 00:10:21.200 Opinion NOTE Confidence: 0.835543688888889 00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:23.060 Professor Blackman. NOTE Confidence: 0.835543688888889 00:10:23.060 --> 00:10:24.390 Did you want to add to that? NOTE Confidence: 0.931893345 00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:28.058 I think going forward, NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:30.290 we'll see another area for litigation. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:30.290 --> 00:10:33.614 For example, could Texas make it NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:33.614 --> 00:10:35.798 a crime for a person to leave NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:35.798 --> 00:10:38.169 the state and get an abortion? NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:38.170 --> 00:10:40.066 Could Texas make it a crime NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:40.066 --> 00:10:41.686 for a Texas organization to NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:41.686 --> 00:10:43.408 fund an out of state abortion? NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:43.410 --> 00:10:45.624 So let's say Uber or Amazon NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:45.624 --> 00:10:48.030 pays for a Texas employees, NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:48.030 --> 00:10:49.878 a travel to go to California NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:49.878 --> 00:10:51.470 to get an abortion, right? NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:51.470 --> 00:10:53.270 Could Texas criminalize that act? NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:53.270 --> 00:10:55.388 I think we'll see litigation in NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:55.388 --> 00:10:58.246 other areas about the breadth or the NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:10:58.246 --> 00:11:01.904 scope of 1 state's power to impose NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:01.904 --> 00:11:05.359 restrictions on abortion and other states. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.720 So I think Presser Rambo is exactly right. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.742 A decision over ruling Roe doesn't NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:09.742 --> 00:11:12.200 get the courts out of the business NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:13.945 of abortion cases simply shifts NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:13.945 --> 00:11:16.238 to very different kind of cases. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:17.232 But we'll be settled. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:17.232 --> 00:11:19.037 Is that the decision to ban abortion NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:19.037 --> 00:11:20.850 in the single state is the prologue NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:20.850 --> 00:11:22.838 of the state in the first instance. NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:23.298 What happens? NOTE Confidence: 0.748741648333333 00:11:23.298 --> 00:11:25.130 Other states will now be up for grabs. NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:27.550 --> 00:11:30.805 Moving forward with the idea that the NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:30.805 --> 00:11:33.936 draft opinion does reflect what the NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:33.936 --> 00:11:36.686 Supreme Court's it's final decision, NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:40.435 we had a tick tock user ask. NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:43.205 What about the same sex cases that NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:43.205 --> 00:11:45.380 are referenced in the opinion? NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:45.380 --> 00:11:48.836 Can the opinion also impact those? NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:50.105 And I'll I'll start with NOTE Confidence: 0.904242901666667 00:11:50.105 --> 00:11:50.864 you Professor Blackman. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:11:52.330 --> 00:11:55.179 Well, I think the gay marriage ruling. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:11:55.179 --> 00:11:59.270 On its face is not really at issue here. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:11:59.270 --> 00:12:01.484 Justice Alito wrote in this draft NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:01.484 --> 00:12:03.670 opinion that abortion is different. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:03.670 --> 00:12:04.822 That abortion involves the NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:04.822 --> 00:12:06.550 taking of the life of another, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:06.550 --> 00:12:08.045 whereas with gay marriage there's NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:08.045 --> 00:12:10.030 no life being taken of another. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:10.030 --> 00:12:10.850 So I think you could, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:12.460 at least on face value, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:15.202 carve out abortion and separate it NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:15.202 --> 00:12:18.180 from gay marriage and other issues. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:18.180 --> 00:12:21.440 But look the justice started. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.088 Do what they want and if the court NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:24.088 --> 00:12:26.058 overrules Rd today other issues NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:26.058 --> 00:12:27.979 in the chopping block, well, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:27.979 --> 00:12:29.593 I think it's unlikely is that NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:29.593 --> 00:12:31.110 there's no March on Washington NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:32.740 to overall gay marriage cases. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:32.740 --> 00:12:34.720 There's no March on Washington NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:35.908 oral contraception cases. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:35.910 --> 00:12:37.866 There's been a 50 year campaign NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:37.866 --> 00:12:38.844 to overrule row. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:40.368 I think the political will simply NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:40.368 --> 00:12:41.750 absent for these other issues. NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:42.980 I think abortion is really NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:42.980 --> 00:12:43.964 an issue unto itself, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:44.930 and that's why the court NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:44.930 --> 00:12:46.070 is where it seems to be, NOTE Confidence: 0.94662005 00:12:46.070 --> 00:12:47.110 at least as of February. NOTE Confidence: 0.63769567 00:12:48.870 --> 00:12:50.622 Professor Pope, do you think NOTE Confidence: 0.63769567 00:12:50.622 --> 00:12:52.530 there are any implications for for NOTE Confidence: 0.852684564705882 00:12:52.596 --> 00:12:54.878 other cases hinted at in this opinion? NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:58.940 There could be, you know, NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:01.620 I think what Professor Blackman NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:03.764 said was absolutely correct NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:03.764 --> 00:13:06.347 and in all its particulars. NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:06.350 --> 00:13:11.380 But the justices could. NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:11.380 --> 00:13:13.080 Go at same sex marriage. NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:15.348 I don't think so. NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:15.348 --> 00:13:18.183 There's such a national consensus NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:18.183 --> 00:13:21.696 about same sex marriage that it just NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:21.696 --> 00:13:23.992 wouldn't make sense to go at it. NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.078 And there's never been a full NOTE Confidence: 0.762228334 00:13:27.078 --> 00:13:29.130 national consensus on abortion. NOTE Confidence: 0.692248717777778 00:13:29.580 --> 00:13:30.784 Professor Chandler. Did you NOTE Confidence: 0.692248717777778 00:13:30.784 --> 00:13:32.289 have thoughts on this one? NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:33.780 --> 00:13:35.166 With most of what's been said, NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:35.170 --> 00:13:37.024 the only qualification is that if NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:37.024 --> 00:13:39.803 you you know did a cut and paste or NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:39.803 --> 00:13:41.684 search and replace on Justice Alito's NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:41.684 --> 00:13:44.008 draft opinion and you took out row, NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:44.010 --> 00:13:45.142 and you substituted Obergefell, NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:45.142 --> 00:13:47.234 which is the case on gay marriage NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:47.234 --> 00:13:48.606 or Lawrence versus Texas, NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:48.610 --> 00:13:50.298 which is the case on ****** NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:50.298 --> 00:13:52.386 it reads pretty much the same. NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:52.390 --> 00:13:54.307 That is a lot of it is an assault NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:54.307 --> 00:13:56.375 on unenumerated rights rights that NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:56.375 --> 00:13:58.620 aren't explicitly stated in the NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:00.451 Constitution for which history NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:00.451 --> 00:14:02.207 doesn't provide strong precedence, NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:04.496 and so although the court says. NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:06.168 No, we're not touching gay marriage. NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:06.170 --> 00:14:07.594 We're not touching contraception. NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:07.594 --> 00:14:10.134 You read some chunks of the opinion NOTE Confidence: 0.82788125 00:14:10.134 --> 00:14:12.948 and you ask yourself, well, why not? NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:13.380 --> 00:14:15.585 I like what he said about you. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:17.282 Know how he characterized it that NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:17.282 --> 00:14:19.617 a lot of people see it as an NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:19.617 --> 00:14:21.052 assault on an enumerated rights. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:21.060 --> 00:14:22.688 And there's no question. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:22.688 --> 00:14:24.316 As I mentioned before, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:25.958 that I think there are seeds NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:25.958 --> 00:14:27.050 planted in that opinion. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:27.050 --> 00:14:29.741 But one of the things that I find that NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:29.741 --> 00:14:31.716 the general public doesn't really NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:31.716 --> 00:14:34.760 get is that there are huge numbers. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:34.760 --> 00:14:36.900 Of unenumerated rights that have NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:36.900 --> 00:14:39.040 been recognized by the Supreme NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:39.113 --> 00:14:40.948 Court of the United States, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:42.370 people think that they have NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:43.506 a free speech right? NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:44.658 And that that's enumerated. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:44.658 --> 00:14:45.806 But you know what? NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:45.810 --> 00:14:47.866 That's only enumerated against NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:47.866 --> 00:14:49.408 the federal government. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:49.410 --> 00:14:51.506 It's implied and unenumerated NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:51.506 --> 00:14:54.126 with respect to state governments. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:54.130 --> 00:14:56.804 The same is true with established religion. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:56.810 --> 00:14:59.211 The the same is true of all NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:14:59.211 --> 00:15:01.570 the Bill of Rights rights. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:03.685 None of those are expressly NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:03.685 --> 00:15:05.377 held against state governments. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:05.380 --> 00:15:08.460 So I think it's important for the NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:11.507 public to realize that when there's NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:11.507 --> 00:15:15.315 talk about an assault on unenumerated rights, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.130 it cuts way broader than they NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:19.130 --> 00:15:21.670 than they generally perceive. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:21.670 --> 00:15:24.650 You know, Miranda, for example, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:24.650 --> 00:15:28.350 is is an unenumerated right? NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:30.966 Because it comes against the states, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:32.722 at least as to the states it comes NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:32.722 --> 00:15:34.503 through to the states through the due NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:34.503 --> 00:15:36.137 process clause of the 14th amendment NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:36.137 --> 00:15:37.889 and the 14th amendment doesn't say NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:37.889 --> 00:15:40.138 anything at all about Miranda rights, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:40.138 --> 00:15:41.050 and indeed, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:41.050 --> 00:15:42.315 even the Bill of Rights NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:42.315 --> 00:15:43.327 doesn't talk about Miranda, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:43.330 --> 00:15:48.090 so I just really want to emphasize NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:48.090 --> 00:15:52.076 that it would take an awful lot. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.480 And it would reverse almost, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.566 I mean, NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:55.566 --> 00:15:58.281 an enormous swath of Supreme NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:58.281 --> 00:15:59.367 Court jurisdiction. NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:02.394 Prudence to start really focusing on NOTE Confidence: 0.693952485714286 00:16:02.394 --> 00:16:05.050 getting rid of unenumerated rights. NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:05.420 --> 00:16:06.930 One of the questions that NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:06.930 --> 00:16:08.560 we've gotten like more than NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:10.260 any other related to this, NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:10.260 --> 00:16:12.060 is questions about the legality NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:12.060 --> 00:16:13.500 of leaking this opinion. NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:15.510 So John asked, can the person NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:15.510 --> 00:16:17.852 who leaked it be held legally NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:17.852 --> 00:16:19.700 accountable for doing so? NOTE Confidence: 0.799098464285714 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:20.310 Professor Pope. NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:21.540 --> 00:16:25.260 The IT probably depends on who leaked it. NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:28.076 If a justice leaked it, the answer is no. NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:28.076 --> 00:16:30.770 If a law clerk leaked it and you NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:30.770 --> 00:16:33.338 could find out who he who did it, NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:36.859 the law clerk would be fired on the spot. NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:40.476 If an employee of the court leaked did, NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.371 then it might be theft of government NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:43.371 --> 00:16:46.219 property and that could be prosecuted, NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:48.612 but they had the better answer of all NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:48.612 --> 00:16:51.267 this is we're never going to discover. NOTE Confidence: 0.7818589525 00:16:51.270 --> 00:16:52.110 Too late yet. NOTE Confidence: 0.90248230375 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.096 I, I suspect we're gonna find that out, NOTE Confidence: 0.90248230375 00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:58.040 so I do too. I think so too. NOTE Confidence: 0.90248230375 00:16:58.040 --> 00:16:59.420 I'll make you an even odds. NOTE Confidence: 0.90248230375 00:16:59.420 --> 00:17:00.908 Bet Professor Poe that we're going NOTE Confidence: 0.90248230375 00:17:00.908 --> 00:17:02.530 to figure out who leaked this. NOTE Confidence: 0.665587783333333 00:17:03.520 --> 00:17:06.714 Well it took for for **** ****** to come out. NOTE Confidence: 0.665587783333333 00:17:06.714 --> 00:17:09.479 It took three two and a 25 years. NOTE Confidence: 0.804322176666667 00:17:09.540 --> 00:17:12.300 Yeah, that was before electronic trails. NOTE Confidence: 0.889046883333333 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:15.780 I think I know a lot NOTE Confidence: 0.93172006 00:17:15.790 --> 00:17:17.116 of people will be watching it NOTE Confidence: 0.93172006 00:17:17.116 --> 00:17:18.309 closely, sorry. Professor Rambo, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.318 one of the one of the things about this NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:21.318 --> 00:17:24.043 is that that we haven't talked about is NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:24.043 --> 00:17:26.319 that everybody who works at the court, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:26.320 --> 00:17:29.312 I believe, and I I don't know the NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:29.312 --> 00:17:32.404 extent of the employees agreements, but. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:32.404 --> 00:17:36.303 Every law clerk is now required since NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:36.303 --> 00:17:39.847 several years back when a book was written NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:39.847 --> 00:17:44.724 by a former law clerk to sign extremely NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:44.724 --> 00:17:46.848 serious confidentiality agreements. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:46.850 --> 00:17:51.150 So there's not any question at all that the NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:54.870 law clerks and the justices for that matter, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:54.870 --> 00:17:57.740 you know, know that this is wrong, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:01.744 and this will lead to serious consequences. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:01.750 --> 00:18:03.352 It would not surprise me if NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:03.352 --> 00:18:04.910 those agreements and I haven't. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:06.038 Build it one. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:06.038 --> 00:18:07.918 Include recognition of the fact NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:07.918 --> 00:18:10.356 that the opinions are government NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:10.356 --> 00:18:12.504 property as Professor Pohlman. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:12.510 --> 00:18:15.418 I think it mentioned. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:17.160 So at a minimum, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:22.010 I think if this is a lawyer there is a NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:22.010 --> 00:18:24.360 serious potential here for disbarment. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:24.360 --> 00:18:26.887 This is an attack on the foundation NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:26.887 --> 00:18:28.540 of our judicial system. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:29.704 On some level, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:29.704 --> 00:18:32.420 it's the highest court in the land. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:34.499 Everybody you know squares an oath to NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:34.499 --> 00:18:36.134 uphold the Constitution of the United NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:36.134 --> 00:18:37.737 States and the bottom line is the NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:37.791 --> 00:18:39.887 Supreme Court is the final arbiter on that. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:39.890 --> 00:18:42.950 It cannot be understated what an NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.330 enormous ethical breach this is. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:45.330 --> 00:18:47.898 And I think there are many many state NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:47.898 --> 00:18:50.518 bars that would would share that view. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:50.520 --> 00:18:54.856 So whether or not it ends up being NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:54.856 --> 00:18:56.820 criminally prosecuted if they NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:56.820 --> 00:18:58.755 find out who did it. NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:18:58.760 --> 00:19:00.920 As theft of property, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.256 if the person's somebody licensed by the bar, NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:05.475 I would suggest that they NOTE Confidence: 0.923846184583333 00:19:05.475 --> 00:19:06.447 are in huge trouble NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:08.878 that does it for the viewer questions. NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.212 But I did want to ask NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:10.212 --> 00:19:11.100 for your final thoughts. NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:14.159 Anything we didn't touch on here that NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:14.159 --> 00:19:18.006 you think is important for folks to know. NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:18.010 --> 00:19:19.810 As they're seeing these headlines, NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:19.810 --> 00:19:21.490 which obviously will continue NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:21.490 --> 00:19:24.010 for days and weeks to come, NOTE Confidence: 0.803952835714286 00:19:24.010 --> 00:19:25.570 I'll start with you, Professor Rambo. NOTE Confidence: 0.82911375375 00:19:28.860 --> 00:19:31.148 Well, I'm the only woman on this panel. NOTE Confidence: 0.934619489090909 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.176 So I think it's kind of NOTE Confidence: 0.934619489090909 00:19:36.176 --> 00:19:39.850 appropriate for me to say. Ah. NOTE Confidence: 0.934619489090909 00:19:39.850 --> 00:19:44.340 That the potential for this NOTE Confidence: 0.934619489090909 00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:48.200 decision is is, to, I think most NOTE Confidence: 0.934619489090909 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:50.440 of American women a tragedy. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:19:52.620 --> 00:19:53.988 That's a political position, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:19:53.988 --> 00:19:56.040 and I mean no disrespect to NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:19:56.107 --> 00:19:57.819 people who feel differently, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:19:57.820 --> 00:20:00.010 but I do think that that's NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:00.010 --> 00:20:01.470 the the main reaction. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:04.692 Umm? You know my first, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:04.692 --> 00:20:06.759 I didn't include this in my first thought, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:09.104 but my first thought was that it was NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:09.104 --> 00:20:12.016 someone who was so extremely upset they NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:12.016 --> 00:20:15.130 couldn't control themselves and leaked it. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:15.130 --> 00:20:16.906 Yeah. You know, like anything else NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:16.906 --> 00:20:19.355 with some more thought put into it and NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:19.355 --> 00:20:20.860 figuring out the political dynamics, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:20.860 --> 00:20:24.070 I came to feel differently. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:24.070 --> 00:20:26.254 And these women are coming to me and NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:26.254 --> 00:20:28.137 asking how can this be happening? NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:29.992 Much like you know, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:29.992 --> 00:20:32.770 many of of your questioners are. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:32.770 --> 00:20:35.710 But it's very important to understand NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:39.329 that the Supreme Court has the power NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:39.329 --> 00:20:41.429 to recognize individual rights. NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:41.430 --> 00:20:44.118 And just as it has the power NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:44.118 --> 00:20:45.870 to recognize individual rights, NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:45.870 --> 00:20:48.168 it has the right the power NOTE Confidence: 0.931341614285714 00:20:48.168 --> 00:20:49.317 to rein retrench NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:20:51.860 --> 00:20:54.750 And that's what we're seeing. NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:20:54.750 --> 00:20:58.278 But again, it's not eliminating abortion. NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:01.928 It's sending the efforts to the NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:01.928 --> 00:21:05.050 political battleground in each state. NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:05.050 --> 00:21:07.114 And those who support a woman's right to NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:07.114 --> 00:21:08.976 terminate her pregnancy need to get very, NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:11.788 very busy person pushing NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:11.788 --> 00:21:14.596 state legislation and frankly, NOTE Confidence: 0.899251334 00:21:14.600 --> 00:21:16.188 changing their neighbor's minds. NOTE Confidence: 0.763554231666667 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:20.704 Professor Rambo. Thank you. NOTE Confidence: 0.763554231666667 00:21:20.704 --> 00:21:22.270 Professor Poe. Final thoughts. NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:24.775 This would not have happened NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:24.775 --> 00:21:25.960 without Mitch McConnell. NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:28.825 His decision to not hold NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:28.825 --> 00:21:31.117 hearings on Merrick Garland. NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:34.186 When Justice Scalia dies in February NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:34.186 --> 00:21:37.940 of 2016 allowed Justice Gorsuch to NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:41.887 get on the court and McConnell's NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:41.887 --> 00:21:45.422 decision to ram through the NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:45.422 --> 00:21:48.250 Justice Barrett nomination when. NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:52.120 Justice Ginsburg dies 46 days before NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:52.120 --> 00:21:54.658 the election without Mitch McConnell. NOTE Confidence: 0.82111596375 00:21:54.658 --> 00:21:56.738 This one wouldn't have happened. NOTE Confidence: 0.8014242575 00:22:00.110 --> 00:22:01.690 Thank you Professor Poe and NOTE Confidence: 0.8014242575 00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:02.638 finally Professor Chandler. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:03.570 --> 00:22:05.118 Yeah, what strikes me the most NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:05.118 --> 00:22:07.162 is that what had been a somewhat NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:07.162 --> 00:22:08.752 abstract debate about the nature NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:08.752 --> 00:22:10.766 of rights is about to become very, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:10.770 --> 00:22:12.730 very real on the ground. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:12.730 --> 00:22:15.154 As I mentioned, within 30 days of that NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:15.154 --> 00:22:17.048 Supreme Court decision coming down, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:17.050 --> 00:22:17.995 abortions will essentially NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:17.995 --> 00:22:19.570 be a felony in Texas. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:19.570 --> 00:22:20.490 Whether we're dealing with NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:20.490 --> 00:22:21.640 a four week old fetus, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:23.350 a 20 week old fetus, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:23.350 --> 00:22:25.954 whether the fetus is deformed in some NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:25.954 --> 00:22:27.610 fashion, and you will see doctors, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:27.610 --> 00:22:29.716 I think coming to a screeching NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:29.716 --> 00:22:31.390 halt in not providing it. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:32.938 Neighboring states are also NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:32.938 --> 00:22:34.486 clamping down on abortions. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:36.051 And so the ability to get one's NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:36.051 --> 00:22:37.300 going to be difficult. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:39.316 What that's going to mean is, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:40.260 and maybe it's for good, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:41.660 and maybe it's for ill. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:44.261 Is that the issue is going to be thrust NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:44.261 --> 00:22:46.937 quite vigorously into the political arena. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:50.124 And if people are unhappy with the pretty NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:50.124 --> 00:22:52.101 draconian restrictions that are being NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:52.101 --> 00:22:54.339 placed on abortion by our legislatures, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:54.340 --> 00:22:56.356 they're going to have to fight and NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:56.356 --> 00:22:58.188 fight hard in those legislatures NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:22:58.188 --> 00:23:00.458 to get those decisions overturned. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:02.630 And it now won't be a matter of just two NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:02.692 --> 00:23:04.867 abstract ideas about constitutional law. NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:04.870 --> 00:23:07.426 It'll be a matter of the fate of individuals, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:08.949 or if you're on the other side, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:11.248 the fate of babies that are NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:11.248 --> 00:23:13.483 things that are close to babies NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:13.483 --> 00:23:15.218 and so for better or worse, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:15.218 --> 00:23:16.603 the Supreme Court is doing NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:16.603 --> 00:23:18.256 exactly what it said for a long NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:18.256 --> 00:23:19.649 time it was thinking of doing, NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:20.978 which was to putting this back into the NOTE Confidence: 0.8642061956 00:23:20.978 --> 00:23:22.249 hands of the States and the people. NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:24.770 --> 00:23:26.075 Professor Blackman had to jump NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:26.075 --> 00:23:27.990 off because of a time constraint, NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:27.990 --> 00:23:30.258 but I wanted to thank the three of you NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:30.258 --> 00:23:32.496 for being a part of this discussion. NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:34.201 I think it shed a lot of light on NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:34.201 --> 00:23:35.908 some of the issues at play here NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:35.908 --> 00:23:37.559 and answered some some very common NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:39.425 questions that we've had from viewers. NOTE Confidence: 0.843914367272727 00:23:39.430 --> 00:23:41.760 So thank you so much. Thank you, NOTE Confidence: 0.48143365 00:23:41.770 --> 00:23:42.949 thank you if NOTE Confidence: 0.965267348 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.380 you're interested in learning more. NOTE Confidence: 0.965267348 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:47.440 C HU11 has complete coverage. NOTE Confidence: 0.965267348 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.000 Just go to khou.com.