WEBVTT NOTE duration:"00:14:02.5930000" NOTE language:en-us NOTE Confidence: 0.85795283 00:00:05.230 --> 00:00:07.190 We're here at the cemetery 'cause this NOTE Confidence: 0.85795283 00:00:07.190 --> 00:00:08.310 is our family plot. NOTE Confidence: 0.85835207 00:00:10.670 --> 00:00:12.155 And our family goes back NOTE Confidence: 0.85835207 00:00:12.155 --> 00:00:13.650 here from 1850s actually. And NOTE Confidence: 0.85835207 00:00:13.650 --> 00:00:16.026 so it's it's Sacramento is a very near NOTE Confidence: 0.85835207 00:00:16.030 --> 00:00:17.818 and dear place to my heart. NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:22.014 But Catherine had no idea she would spend NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:22.014 --> 00:00:24.672 her mother's final days fighting in one NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:24.672 --> 00:00:26.248 of Sacramento's powerful institutions NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:26.248 --> 00:00:28.610 are probate court. It was like NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:28.610 --> 00:00:30.430 the Wild West out there. NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:30.430 --> 00:00:32.165 Probate law is so complicated NOTE Confidence: 0.8763404 00:00:32.165 --> 00:00:34.430 and it's really hard to follow. NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:39.210 --> 00:00:40.510 Matter 29 in the matter NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:40.510 --> 00:00:41.550 of morning your Honor. NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:41.550 --> 00:00:43.298 Mark Blake appearing on NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:43.298 --> 00:00:45.046 behalf of the petitioner. NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:45.050 --> 00:00:46.570 Response to letters last NOTE Confidence: 0.70289886 00:00:46.570 --> 00:00:48.090 for one department. 129 NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:48.090 --> 00:00:50.118 handles all probate matters in Sacramento NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:50.118 --> 00:00:51.983 County from his state proceedings NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:51.983 --> 00:00:53.787 to trust to Conservatorship's. NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:53.790 --> 00:00:56.450 Roughly 100 cases per week in 2013, NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:56.450 --> 00:00:58.730 one of those was Katherine's mom, NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:00:58.730 --> 00:01:01.754 who was placed under a conservatorship so NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:01.754 --> 00:01:04.805 basic right after my dad died and I'm now NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:04.810 --> 00:01:07.099 all of a sudden I'm having to NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:07.099 --> 00:01:09.465 deal with court by our families NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:09.465 --> 00:01:11.645 fighting my mom being conserved. NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:11.650 --> 00:01:14.080 A conservatorship is when the probate NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:16.127 court appoints another person to NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:16.127 --> 00:01:17.942 have legal authority over someone's NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:17.942 --> 00:01:20.059 life when they cannot take care. NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:20.060 --> 00:01:21.938 Themselves, they can be fast hearings NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:21.938 --> 00:01:24.044 for the amount of power provided NOTE Confidence: 0.8454679 00:01:24.044 --> 00:01:25.930 over another person. We have NOTE Confidence: 0.8649744 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:28.338 the right to decide where we live NOTE Confidence: 0.8649744 00:01:28.338 --> 00:01:30.356 to make our own medical decisions, NOTE Confidence: 0.8649744 00:01:30.356 --> 00:01:33.514 to decide who we talk to when you are put NOTE Confidence: 0.8649744 00:01:33.514 --> 00:01:35.588 under conservatorship, you lose that. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.510 A variety of people can NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:44.510 --> 00:01:45.725 be appointed conservator, NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:47.760 including relatives. But if family NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.790 members aren't getting along when NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:49.790 --> 00:01:51.820 you bring the center cord, NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:51.820 --> 00:01:54.250 it's no longer just a family NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:54.250 --> 00:01:55.890 squabble with feuding families. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:55.890 --> 00:01:58.350 The probate Court may lean towards NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:01:58.414 --> 00:02:00.339 appointing an outside person to NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:01.558 serve as conservatore. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:01.558 --> 00:02:03.588 I'm not frequently is a NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:03.590 --> 00:02:04.366 professional fiduciary. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:04.366 --> 00:02:06.306 This professional fiduciary serves as NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:06.306 --> 00:02:08.459 an unbiased third party conservatore. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:10.974 The California Probate Code says the NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:10.974 --> 00:02:13.450 proposed Conservatee must attend the hearing. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:13.450 --> 00:02:15.648 But exceptions are made for a number NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:15.648 --> 00:02:17.532 of things, including if they are NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:17.532 --> 00:02:19.097 unwilling to or medically unable. NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:19.100 --> 00:02:21.068 This means that sometimes they aren't NOTE Confidence: 0.84877795 00:02:21.068 --> 00:02:23.178 part of the decision being made on NOTE Confidence: 0.86878544 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:26.008 their behalf. In a lot of cases, the court NOTE Confidence: 0.86878544 00:02:26.008 --> 00:02:27.578 never sees that proposed conservatee. NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:32.639 That's where the court investigator comes in. NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:34.785 The probate investigator brought a NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:34.785 --> 00:02:37.879 real time snapshot of what's going on NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.069 after a petition for conservatorship NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:40.070 --> 00:02:42.250 is filed. A court investigator NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:43.558 interviews the Conservatee. NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:45.942 They observe their physical and mental NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:45.942 --> 00:02:48.561 state to see if conservatorship is NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:48.561 --> 00:02:51.429 needed first and foremost for the NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:51.430 --> 00:02:54.335 judge to have as balanced and concise NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:54.335 --> 00:02:57.990 a report of what we observed. Jim was NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:00.300 a court investigator in the NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:01.686 Sacramento County Probate NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:01.686 --> 00:03:03.769 Court from 1980 till 2009. NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:03.770 --> 00:03:04.907 Throughout his career, NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:04.907 --> 00:03:06.802 he says there were multiple NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:06.802 --> 00:03:08.558 circumstances of an increase in NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:08.558 --> 00:03:09.802 cases and decrease in NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:09.802 --> 00:03:11.310 funding of certain entities, NOTE Confidence: 0.85759586 00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:12.390 like public guardians, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:12.390 --> 00:03:13.802 a backlog was created. NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:13.802 --> 00:03:16.708 It became a matter of do we have NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:16.708 --> 00:03:18.844 enough resources to do it all, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:18.850 --> 00:03:20.640 and the answer was no, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:20.640 --> 00:03:22.440 it's not the judges fault, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:24.855 but might have a one hour calendar NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:24.855 --> 00:03:27.401 with 80 matters before him or her NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:27.401 --> 00:03:29.555 person becomes used to hearing the NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:29.628 --> 00:03:31.770 same story over and over again. NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:34.642 And pretty soon it's easy to dehumanize it. NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:34.642 --> 00:03:37.286 We treat all the people that come. NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:37.290 --> 00:03:38.462 Find it quite respectfully, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:38.462 --> 00:03:40.726 but we have a calendar that requires that NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:40.726 --> 00:03:43.159 if we spend a lot of time on one matter, NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:44.485 that that could potentially affect NOTE Confidence: 0.8636967 00:03:44.485 --> 00:03:46.370 how much time we spend on another. NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:03:51.710 --> 00:03:54.310 In the book Guardianships in the elderly, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:03:54.310 --> 00:03:55.978 the perfect crime author, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:03:55.978 --> 00:03:58.063 Doctor Sam Sugar says significant NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:03:58.063 --> 00:04:00.273 money can be made by court insiders NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:00.273 --> 00:04:02.706 who know how to play the public NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:02.706 --> 00:04:04.318 system in our investigation, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:06.005 found two significant ways that NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:06.005 --> 00:04:07.690 appear to be loopholes around NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:09.518 court regulations and oversight. NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.740 The first is ex parte petitions, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:13.600 also known as emergency petitions. NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:16.057 The probate code requires each party have NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:16.057 --> 00:04:18.898 15 days for evaluations from a doctor. NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:18.900 --> 00:04:20.712 In court Inspector, after a petition NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:20.712 --> 00:04:22.280 of a conservatorship is filed, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:22.280 --> 00:04:24.429 but if an emergency petition is filed, NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:25.654 it's a different story. NOTE Confidence: 0.8551758 00:04:25.654 --> 00:04:26.878 So you go in NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:29.057 with an ex parte petition and some NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:29.057 --> 00:04:31.488 counties you have to give 48 hours notice. NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:31.490 --> 00:04:34.560 Some counties you just go in and do it in NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:35.896 Sacramento County, Exparte's are, NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:35.896 --> 00:04:38.773 in the event of an emergency and must be NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:38.773 --> 00:04:40.663 submitted at least 24 hours in advance NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:40.718 --> 00:04:42.850 of the desired hearing time. You have NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:42.850 --> 00:04:45.076 to say there's a reason why we NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:45.076 --> 00:04:47.140 have to move this up on the NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:47.140 --> 00:04:49.036 calendar, and as a court investigator. NOTE Confidence: 0.8624958 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:51.090 Still required to investigate when it's NOTE Confidence: 0.90739745 00:04:51.090 --> 00:04:54.170 an ex parte. I don't believe they are so NOTE Confidence: 0.90739745 00:04:54.170 --> 00:04:56.560 they don't have to do an investigation. NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:00.580 --> 00:05:02.716 Carol Kelly says it was an NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:02.716 --> 00:05:04.640 emergency petition that placed her NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:04.640 --> 00:05:06.388 mother under a conservatorship. NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:06.390 --> 00:05:08.706 One, she says, was based on NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:08.706 --> 00:05:10.260 unverified allegations. Petition was NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:10.260 --> 00:05:12.190 written by Carolyn Young herself NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:12.190 --> 00:05:13.734 that contained false information, NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.056 according to court documents, an ex NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.256 parte petition was filed by Fiduciary NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:18.256 --> 00:05:20.600 Carolyn Young after an anonymous call NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.030 was made to Adult Protective Services, NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:23.030 --> 00:05:25.958 saying Mary Jane Man was at risk of NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:25.958 --> 00:05:28.780 abuse from one of her daughters, Carol. NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:28.780 --> 00:05:31.840 This led to Mary Jane Man being placed under NOTE Confidence: 0.8516598 00:05:31.911 --> 00:05:34.760 a temporary conservatorship of young. These NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:34.760 --> 00:05:36.690 were wild, wild accusations that NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:36.690 --> 00:05:39.035 were written up to justify her NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:39.035 --> 00:05:40.780 taking control of my mother. NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:40.780 --> 00:05:41.905 Court documents reveal NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:41.905 --> 00:05:43.405 Carol sister appeared to NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:43.410 --> 00:05:45.612 be in favor of the conservatorship NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:45.612 --> 00:05:47.540 and had concerns about Carol, NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:49.044 alleging she was isolating NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:49.044 --> 00:05:50.548 their mother from her. NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:50.550 --> 00:05:52.806 A wedge was put between us, NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:55.785 did not help my mother, but I can't NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:55.785 --> 00:05:58.991 tell you how hard it is to watch NOTE Confidence: 0.85604286 00:05:58.991 --> 00:06:01.769 someone you love. Have to suffer NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:01.770 --> 00:06:03.888 court records show their mother said NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:03.888 --> 00:06:06.006 she was perfectly capable of managing NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:06.006 --> 00:06:07.950 her own financial affairs two years NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:07.950 --> 00:06:10.368 after the conservatorship was appointed, NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:10.370 --> 00:06:12.240 Man sued for civil rights NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.110 violations in a binding settlement, NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:15.875 an agreement that was reached NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:15.875 --> 00:06:18.230 with Young and her legal counsel. NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:20.190 The conservatorship was dissolved with NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:20.190 --> 00:06:22.720 the agreement that man dropped the suit. NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:24.208 Carol believes this conservatorship NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:24.208 --> 00:06:25.324 was never needed, NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:25.330 --> 00:06:27.454 and it took a financial and NOTE Confidence: 0.87178165 00:06:27.454 --> 00:06:29.450 emotional toll on her mother. NOTE Confidence: 0.875122690666667 00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:33.563 I have no doubt. That Carolyn Young's NOTE Confidence: 0.875122690666667 00:06:33.563 --> 00:06:36.479 actions took years off of my mother's life. NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:39.915 Young refused our many requests NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:39.915 --> 00:06:41.410 for an on camera interview, NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:41.410 --> 00:06:42.900 but answered some of our NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.794 questions in writing. NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.300 When we asked about man's NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:45.900 mental capabilities, NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:45.900 --> 00:06:47.346 Young said in part that there NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:47.346 --> 00:06:49.390 is no basis in fact for Carol NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:49.390 --> 00:06:50.750 Kelly's opinions and noting NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:50.750 --> 00:06:52.439 multiple times that she follows NOTE Confidence: 0.8651312 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:53.964 the direction of the court. NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:06:57.900 --> 00:06:59.736 The second loophole around the probate NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:06:59.736 --> 00:07:02.269 court is through the trust. It might be NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:04.064 because the maker of that trust NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:04.064 --> 00:07:05.959 doesn't have a close relative that NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:08.192 they feel like they can depend upon. NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:09.444 So they interview a NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:09.444 --> 00:07:10.380 professional fiduciary. Once NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:10.380 --> 00:07:12.876 you petition the court to get on the NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:12.876 --> 00:07:15.056 trusts. It's the end of the courts NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:16.308 oversight. The trust has NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:16.308 --> 00:07:17.868 basically three or four parties. NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:17.870 --> 00:07:20.047 It has the maker of the trust, NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:20.050 --> 00:07:21.982 the trustee who is in charge of NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:21.982 --> 00:07:23.231 assets and applying directions NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:23.231 --> 00:07:25.036 to the trust and beneficiary. NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:26.740 Who's supposed to benefit from. NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:26.740 --> 00:07:28.612 Assets in the trust it's set NOTE Confidence: 0.85948604 00:07:28.612 --> 00:07:31.109 up in a way where oversight NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:31.110 --> 00:07:33.372 is written in, and because you NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:33.372 --> 00:07:35.480 have that it doesn't have to NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:36.936 go through probate court. NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:36.936 --> 00:07:38.756 While that can help avoid NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:38.756 --> 00:07:39.839 expensive legal fees, NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:42.682 it can also be detrimental if the NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:42.682 --> 00:07:44.922 trustee doesn't execute it in the NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:44.922 --> 00:07:47.120 way the maker of the trust wanted. NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:48.532 Specifically here in Sacramento NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:48.532 --> 00:07:51.130 Gym saw how using the trust changed NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:51.130 --> 00:07:52.207 the conservatorship business. NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:52.207 --> 00:07:54.361 The legal community moved away from NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:54.361 --> 00:07:56.697 the oversight that was inherent in NOTE Confidence: 0.8722945 00:07:56.697 --> 00:07:58.200 the conservatorship process. He NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:07:58.200 --> 00:07:59.568 believes a combination of NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:07:59.568 --> 00:08:00.594 resources tightening within NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:00.594 --> 00:08:01.990 the Public Guardian's Office, NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:01.990 --> 00:08:03.375 plus going around the court NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:03.375 --> 00:08:04.760 with trusts was how the NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:04.816 --> 00:08:06.118 conservatorship business evolved NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:06.118 --> 00:08:07.854 from public to private. NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:08.889 Their fees and NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:08.890 --> 00:08:10.906 the fees of their private fiduciary NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:10.906 --> 00:08:13.718 clients had to be approved by the court, NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.405 so a work around is that if the trust is set NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:17.405 --> 00:08:20.618 up in such a way that there's no review, NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:23.248 you charge what fees you want. NOTE Confidence: 0.8557055 00:08:23.250 --> 00:08:26.540 Then you get your fees automatically. In NOTE Confidence: 0.8732957 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:28.284 the 80s, Jim says there was a mass NOTE Confidence: 0.8732957 00:08:28.284 --> 00:08:30.121 exit of a group of professionals NOTE Confidence: 0.8732957 00:08:30.121 --> 00:08:31.469 from the Sacramento County NOTE Confidence: 0.8732957 00:08:31.469 --> 00:08:33.237 Probate Court to the private side. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:33.900 --> 00:08:36.246 Carolyn Young, who was at the NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:36.246 --> 00:08:38.224 public guardians. She was one NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:38.224 --> 00:08:40.214 of the first private fiduciaries NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:40.214 --> 00:08:42.890 that I had ever heard of, and NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:42.890 --> 00:08:46.018 it was the start of a successful business NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:46.020 --> 00:08:48.366 for Young. I think she's the NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:48.366 --> 00:08:49.930 leading licensed fiduciary in NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:49.930 --> 00:08:51.885 Sacramento. According to annual statements NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:51.885 --> 00:08:53.840 to the Professional Fiduciary Bureau. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:56.102 In her 2020 statement, Carolyn Young NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:56.102 --> 00:08:58.140 reported managing over $111 million. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:08:58.140 --> 00:09:00.095 The other fiduciaries in her NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:00.095 --> 00:09:02.050 business are her two children, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:02.050 --> 00:09:04.110 Zach Young, Anne Lindsay Bowman. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:04.110 --> 00:09:05.966 For 2020, Zach reported, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:05.966 --> 00:09:07.358 managing $135 million, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.212 and Lindsey reported managing NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:09.212 --> 00:09:11.064 over 30 million altogether. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:12.922 That's nearly $277 million NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:12.922 --> 00:09:14.774 of other people's assets. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:14.780 --> 00:09:15.744 Carolyn, Zack, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:15.744 --> 00:09:19.118 and Lindsey of the young fiduciary business NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:19.118 --> 00:09:22.210 manage fiduciaries handle a lot of money, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:24.062 according to the Professional NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:24.062 --> 00:09:24.988 Fiduciary Bureau, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:24.990 --> 00:09:27.060 around $13 billion of other NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:29.130 people's assets are handled by NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:29.204 --> 00:09:31.488 fiduciaries in California alone. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:31.490 --> 00:09:33.810 In a statement to US, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:36.130 Young said in 35 years. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:36.130 --> 00:09:37.750 As a professional fiduciary. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:37.750 --> 00:09:39.775 She's handled over 1000 cases. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:42.258 She also said that those cases have NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:42.258 --> 00:09:44.017 involved several 1000 reports to NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:44.017 --> 00:09:46.236 the Court for review of my actions. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.776 In no case has the court or the NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:48.776 --> 00:09:50.557 Professional Fiduciary Bureau ever found NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:50.557 --> 00:09:53.410 that I've breached my fiduciary duties. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:53.410 --> 00:09:55.440 We combed through those probate NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.269 court cases and we found a pattern. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:09:58.270 --> 00:10:00.700 The same attorneys working with young, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.130 the continuing education of the Bar's NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:03.130 --> 00:10:04.345 California conservatorship practice, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:07.094 says most courts will not appoint an NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:07.094 --> 00:10:09.274 attorney for proposed conservatee if NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:09.274 --> 00:10:11.604 that same attorney has represented NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:11.604 --> 00:10:13.890 the Conservatore in other cases. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:13.890 --> 00:10:16.158 From January 2010 to September 2020, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:18.561 we discovered 56 out of 84 cases NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:18.561 --> 00:10:21.241 where a number of the same attorneys NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:21.241 --> 00:10:24.120 represented young in 44 of those cases, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.388 she was represented by an attorney NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:26.388 --> 00:10:27.522 named Tasha Amamoto. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:27.530 --> 00:10:29.430 In the other 12 cases, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:29.430 --> 00:10:31.320 she was represented by attorneys NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:32.840 Leland Ellison, Judy Carver, NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:34.740 Todd Roby, and Barbara Bender. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:37.287 We found three out of the 56 cases where NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:37.287 --> 00:10:39.544 these same attorneys who represented NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:39.544 --> 00:10:41.934 young then represented the conservatee. NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:44.214 In other cases where young was NOTE Confidence: 0.8424765 00:10:44.214 --> 00:10:45.730 petitioning to be conservatore NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:46.130 --> 00:10:48.146 you later kind of find out NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:48.146 --> 00:10:50.349 all the kinds of things and NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:51.542 how intertwined it is. NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:51.542 --> 00:10:53.330 Many involved in these cases we NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:53.391 --> 00:10:55.821 spoke with believe when the same NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:55.821 --> 00:10:57.036 attorney represents conservators, NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.391 conservatives, NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:57.391 --> 00:10:59.146 and even different family members. NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:10:59.150 --> 00:11:00.206 In multiple cases, NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:00.206 --> 00:11:01.966 it's a conflict of interest. NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:01.970 --> 00:11:04.231 It was also part of the reason NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:04.231 --> 00:11:06.031 behind Jamie Lambourne suing and NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:06.031 --> 00:11:07.946 settling with her former attorney, NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:07.950 --> 00:11:08.572 Tasha Mamodo, NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:08.572 --> 00:11:10.127 because she says he didn't NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:10.127 --> 00:11:11.906 disclose his in Young's previous NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:11.906 --> 00:11:13.482 relationship prior to Young NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:13.482 --> 00:11:15.058 being appointed trustee in NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:15.119 --> 00:11:16.619 Conservatory of her father. NOTE Confidence: 0.8357125 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:17.439 I was suing NOTE Confidence: 0.844916566666667 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.980 him. You know, because he NOTE Confidence: 0.8732415 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:22.146 deserved it. She also filed the NOTE Confidence: 0.8732415 00:11:22.146 --> 00:11:23.920 complaint with the State Bar, NOTE Confidence: 0.8732415 00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:25.710 which launched an investigation into NOTE Confidence: 0.8732415 00:11:25.710 --> 00:11:29.730 Yamamoto, but was later dropped. When NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:29.730 --> 00:11:32.061 we showed our findings of the same NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:32.061 --> 00:11:33.773 attorneys working with the same NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:33.773 --> 00:11:35.408 fiduciary to the California State NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:35.408 --> 00:11:37.352 Bar and asked if this qualifies NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:37.352 --> 00:11:38.914 as a conflict of interest, NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:38.914 --> 00:11:40.880 they refused to comment and suggested NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:40.880 --> 00:11:42.847 that we seek in outside experts. NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:42.847 --> 00:11:45.142 So we went to Professor Melissa Brown. NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:45.142 --> 00:11:46.454 Sacramento really is a NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:46.460 --> 00:11:47.768 small legal community and NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:47.768 --> 00:11:49.076 conservatorship law is complex, NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.102 making it a smaller number of NOTE Confidence: 0.8797245 00:11:51.102 --> 00:11:52.690 attorneys who specialize in it. NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:56.176 Court is likely you'll see many NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:11:56.176 --> 00:11:57.935 of the same attorneys handling NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:11:57.935 --> 00:11:59.680 the same types of cases, NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:01.415 she said. Attorneys cannot represent NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:01.415 --> 00:12:03.820 multiple parties in the same case. That's NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:03.820 --> 00:12:05.550 a clear conflict of interest. NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:05.550 --> 00:12:08.366 But if you finish one case with another NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:08.366 --> 00:12:10.762 fiduciary and a family or the court NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:10.762 --> 00:12:12.790 appoints shoo in in another case, NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:12.790 --> 00:12:14.520 to represent the proposed conservatee, NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:14.520 --> 00:12:16.935 I don't. I mean, I don't think NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:16.935 --> 00:12:18.660 that's a conflict. This small NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:18.660 --> 00:12:20.250 number of attorneys who specialize NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:20.250 --> 00:12:22.686 in this field here in Sacramento is NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:22.686 --> 00:12:24.636 something we witnessed first hand. NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:26.848 Months after we interviewed Mike Achord, NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:28.318 he began actively investigating NOTE Confidence: 0.82356656 00:12:28.318 --> 00:12:30.153 a case against Carolyn Young. NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:30.160 --> 00:12:31.925 Does she and the attorneys NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:31.925 --> 00:12:34.524 that work with their kind of a NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:34.524 --> 00:12:36.419 reputation in the legal community? NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:38.235 Well, the reputation is generally NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:38.235 --> 00:12:40.829 if she's or members of her family, NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:40.830 --> 00:12:42.670 let's say or the conservative, NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:42.670 --> 00:12:45.337 you can pretty well guess who are NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:45.337 --> 00:12:47.459 the attorneys are going to be? NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:49.300 And that's a natural thing, NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:49.300 --> 00:12:51.140 probably utilizing the same Council. NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:51.140 --> 00:12:53.372 The probate court. Is. NOTE Confidence: 0.8414305 00:12:53.372 --> 00:12:57.410 It's an old boys old Girls Club. NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:12:59.210 --> 00:13:01.015 But some of the small amount NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:01.015 --> 00:13:02.490 of Sacramento attorneys in this NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:02.552 --> 00:13:04.162 field have not been comfortable NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:04.162 --> 00:13:05.450 when potential clients try NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:05.450 --> 00:13:07.149 to fight the conservatorship NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:07.150 --> 00:13:09.136 system, find an attorney in Sacramento NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:09.136 --> 00:13:11.172 that doesn't have a conflict with NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:11.172 --> 00:13:13.440 Todd Roby or Caroline Young or Toast. NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:14.770 Yamamoto is impossible. How NOTE Confidence: 0.83076733 00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:19.400 many do you think you 10? 10 NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:19.400 --> 00:13:21.640 yeah and then I had other ones NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:21.640 --> 00:13:23.454 that just wouldn't take it on NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:23.454 --> 00:13:24.588 'cause it was complicated. NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:24.588 --> 00:13:26.128 I couldn't find any help. NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:26.128 --> 00:13:29.159 OK, I was just down to the bottom of the NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:31.368 barrel and many we spoke with have lost NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:31.368 --> 00:13:33.740 faith in our judicial system. Because of NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:35.260 this. There is no oversight NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:35.260 --> 00:13:36.175 or accountability. That's NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:36.175 --> 00:13:37.700 what's really sad because they NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:37.700 --> 00:13:39.892 know it's wrong and they still do it NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:39.892 --> 00:13:41.968 anyhow and they're still being paid. NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:43.190 And that's the problem. NOTE Confidence: 0.88711333 00:13:43.190 --> 00:13:44.715 You look at the motivation.